ࡱ> #` JFbjbj5G5G 7`W-W-J>fffffffz46,z)n((((((($*h-(f"""(ff(j$j$j$"ff(j$"(j$j$'ff/'b $ft#'((0)''-$F-/'/'-f' vj$,2 l((`$ )""""zzz$ dzzzzzzffffff April 24, 2007 Drs. Cameron: As I approach your recent report, I will acknowledge immediately that I am skeptical because you continue to defend the integrity of your obituary study of gay life expectancy. I also acknowledge that I am not an expert in statistics. My training is clinical and my scholarly work is primarily in digesting research for use in clinical settings. That said, I think it is fair to provide an informed reaction to your paper and subsequent letters to me. Having reviewed it, I have no additional confidence in your conclusions. As it stands, it seems to me that there are numerous assumptions and uncontrolled factors that could skew your findings to the point where any results cannot be trusted. Your report begins by exploring Canadian survey results as presented in this table.  From this chart, you calculate a ratio of heterosexual to homosexual orientation and then you note the much lower percentage of people who endorse homosexual or bisexual as their orientation. However, you fail to account for the much higher percentage of people over 65 who either refuse to answer the question or say they dont know. Actually the heterosexual percentage for those over 65 is lower the other age cohorts (86% vs. approximately 93%). There could be multiple explanations for these numbers. Using the Cameron and Cameron approach, one could even make the statement that those who are homosexual, bisexual or unsure of their sexuality outlive heterosexuals since as a group their portion of the total population increases over time. One of you (Paul) said to me in an email that your conclusions [about gay life expectancy] came to light as we were preparing the report, and I included them on the assumption that those in attendance would be interested in any new information on the subject. Paul said this in defense of presenting information in your poster session on life expectancy, the bulk of which was not referenced in your proposal to the EPA. Paul also said about the Canadian data, As you can see, in both the table and the abstract, we note the precipitous decline in the homosexual population following middle age. Indeed, failure to consider the reason for this decline would have constituted negligence on our part. It seems you ask me to believe that you presented a proposal to the EPA that related only to the Canadian data presented above, but then it occurred to you sometime after the proposal was submitted that the prime explanation for the decline in the number of gays over 60 might be their early demise. Then, am I to assume that you purchased the Denmark and Norwegian data and then discovered that you were correct? I cannot figure out why you did not include the life expectancy hypothesis in your proposal. Rather, it appears to me that you already had a belief about Table 1 presented above gays die young. You have been on record with this belief. It does not appear to me that, for you, Table 1 was an observation that required investigation. If so, isnt it negligence to avoid an explanation for the striking shift in the Unknown column? With the high percentage of unknowns, speculation is all that can be offered. But for some speculations, there is modest empirical basis. For instance, (and you mention this in passing), there may be some homosexually oriented people who experience a shift in their sexuality. Kinnish, Strassberg and Turner (2005) found that one-third of their survey respondents experienced a spontaneous shift in their sexual orientation category over the life-span; another one-third experienced more minor shifts. Also on point, it has been demonstrated that older people are more reluctant to disclose a non-heterosexual orientation (Johnson, Jackson, Arnette & Koffman, 2005). It does not seem plausible that older people who were certain of their heterosexuality would refuse to answer a question about sexual orientation or say they were unsure, when the socially safe answer would be to affirm heterosexuality. From my clinical experience, I can attest to this reluctance in older folks. I also know older clients who, after losing an opposite-sex partner to death participate in same-sex eroticism and are truly unsure how to view themselves. And finally, it is possible that there may indeed be some diminished life expectancy but for reasons that I provide below, one cannot sustain confidence in this singular explanation from these data. Looking at other research regarding this hypothesis, Hogg et al (1997) found lowered life expectancy for homosexual men in British Columbia. Frequently cited is this finding: In a major Canadian centre, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, we estimate that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday. (Hogg et al, 1997, from the abstract) However, Hoggs research team followed up with a letter to the editor of the International Journal of Epidemiology with this caution: In contrast, if we were to repeat this analysis today the life expectancy of gay and bisexual men would be greatly improved. Deaths from HIV infection have declined dramatically in this population since 1996. As we have previously reported there has been a threefold decrease in mortality in Vancouver as well as in other parts of British Columbia. (Hogg et al, 2001, 1499). Also, in this letter, Hogg et al (2001) demonstrated that life expectancy is a fluid construct and quite sensitive to a variety of environmental and cultural changes. In other words, taking a snapshot in time may give you one view now, but that finding could change substantially in very short order (as it has in Canada). Hogg et al conclude: It is essential to note that the life expectancy of any population is a descriptive and not a prescriptive measure. Death is a product of the way a person lives and what physical and environmental hazards he or she faces everyday. It cannot be attributed solely to their sexual orientation or any other ethnic or social factor. (Hogg et al, 2001, 1499). I am going to reserve extensive comments about the Danish data until I can see what you used to construct your tables. You said in your EPA paper ( HYPERLINK "http://www.earnedmedia.org/frireport.htm" http://www.earnedmedia.org/frireport.htm) that you purchased data to construct life expectancy tables. Without seeing the data that you received from Denmark, I cannot comment beyond the substantial limitations and assumptions you note in your paper. I asked Morten Frisch whether or not data existed in his country to allow calculations of different life expectancies for homosexually vs. heterosexually partnered people. His opinion is that the existing data he has seen would not permit such calculations. The Norwegian data set is so small as to be useless for these purposes (which you acknowledge in your paper). However, even without the actual data set, I observe that you make extensive assumptions which you outline in your paper. For those reading my letter, I want to quote extensively from your paper to demonstrate how tentative this report is and how far the authors have gone beyond their ability to interpret their data in their public statements. From page seven, you write: Our use of cohort life tables is somewhat unusual. For one thing, the individuals included in our computations did not all come from the same birth cohort. Furthermore, when calculating separate life tables by marital status, we had no way of determining which individuals had switched their status (e.g., from ever-married to ever-homosexually partnered) at some point in life. Still, the data at hand allow for crude estimates. (Cameron & Cameron, 2007, p. 7) Crude estimates? You essentially say, we lumped people from different cohorts together and had no way of determining their actual marital status. But despite the fact that you have no way of knowing whether you can trust this method, you can still make crude estimates. Your news releases make no mention of crude estimates. Rather the headline of one release confidently says: Married Gays Die 24 Years Younger. You continue, Of course, without the larger, surviving at-risk population included, there is undoubtedly bias associated with the cohort life table method. (p. 8) The state of flux in these countries since the adoption of homosexual partnership registries makes it very difficult to compute reliable current life tables by marital status; adding to this, 2) the number of deaths among ever-homosexually partnered individuals was too small in any given year to enable precise or stable survival estimates. (Cameron & Cameron, 2007, p. 8) While I commend you for pointing out these substantial, and to my mind fatal, limitations, I am perplexed that you proceeded with your analysis. Perhaps the most damning statement is this: the number of deaths among ever-homosexually partnered individuals was too small in any given year to enable precise or stable survival estimates. Your news releases make no mention of this liability. If the estimates are imprecise and/or unstable, why make them at all? Why report them as being trustworthy? Why make public unqualified estimates that are imprecise and/or unstable? Comparing data sets, you speculate further: When looking at males-in-general or females-in-general in Denmark and Norway, degree of bias using the officially published life tables as the standard is at most a year or two. Thus, although we cannot know the degree of bias associated with the much smaller data sets of, say, ever-partnered gays and lesbians, we have some confidence that differences of 20 or more years in average life expectancy are not due to bias inherent in the estimating technique. (Cameron & Cameron, 2007, p. 8) I did not see any basis for assuming that the smaller number of people from an immature data stream (homosexual partnering has only been recognized since 1989 in Denmark) would not add significant bias to the life tables. You simply state your confidence without any rationale that I can find. And finally, Estimates of life table standard errors assume 1) that the population of ages-at-death is not so skewed as to make central limit theorem approximations untenable, and 2) that the sets of deaths behave statistically like a random sample of all similar deaths. (p.8) Also, there is an implicit assumption that officially recorded deaths in Denmark and Norway comprise a random sample of ever homosexually-partnered individuals in those countries, that the obituaries from the Washington Blade behave as a random sample from all such MSM and WSW deaths in at least the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area, and that those from the Washington Post are similarly representative of D.C.-area residents. None of these assumptions can be verified one way or the other, limiting our analysis. Nevertheless, the empirical comparisons above do not suggest that any of these assumptions has been outlandishly violated. (p. 8-9) The sets of homosexually-partnered individuals from Norway though including all officially recorded deaths between 1997 and 2002 are quite small. The standard errors for these groups reflect to some degree the greater uncertainty associated with these data sets, but probably not all of it. Although the Norwegian estimates for life expectancy are generally consistent with those from Denmark, and indeed with obituaries from the Washington Blade, we recognize that there may be substantial additional bias associated with these figures. (Cameron & Cameron, 2007, p. 9) Despite the fact that most of these assumptions cannot be verified, you still compute data as if you had large, random samples or had some basis for assuming randomness. Your news releases provide no indication about how sketchy these figures are and how you arrived at them. The news releases make it sound as if these countries keep data in such a way that life expectancies could be reliably calculated or simply read from a table. If your study conclusions are based on randomness, then there can be no confidence in your findings. While I cannot comment on the Denmark data without seeing it, your own admitted limitations provide ample reason to be skeptical of your very confidently stated conclusions. About the obituary sampling, however, it stretches the imagination to think that obituaries published in any news outlet could be considered a random sample. It is hard to imagine a more skewed sampling approach. However, these limitations are not stated in your news releases. You say in your paper that your analysis is limited due to sampling limitations and yet nothing seems to limit your public statements. To conclude, I have many objections to this study as well as the way you portrayed the results in the media. You define multiple assumptions which must be true in order to establish central tendency which I do not believe are reasonable to assume. The news releases convey a confidence in your findings which seems quite unscientific. Further, I object to what appears to me to be your effort to establish the homosexually inclined as a distinct, monolithic group of people. It seems to me that gays and lesbians are quite diverse in their behavior and values. Being same-sex attracted tells me very little, if anything about the way one lives or the activities one chooses. One might find some small effect size for a risk factor, say depression, but that cannot say much about a typical homosexual. I think it fine to crusade against sexual promiscuity, risky sexual behavior, drug abuse, smoking, using seat belts, etc. You will have many people join you, both same-sex attracted and opposite-sex attracted. However, to say that being in a class of people is to expose oneself to risk via membership in that class is a misleading use of measures of central tendency, in my opinion. Hogg et als statement seems worth repeating here: It is essential to note that the life expectancy of any population is a descriptive and not a prescriptive measure. Death is a product of the way a person lives and what physical and environmental hazards he or she faces everyday. It cannot be attributed solely to their sexual orientation or any other ethnic or social factor. (Hogg et al, 2001, p. 1499). As with the other communications in this exchange, I intend to post this to my blog and agree to post any replies you care to make. I am interested in seeing the Danish data and would like to invite you to make it available for independent review. Sincerely, Warren Throckmorton, PhD Associate Professor, Psychology Fellow, Psychology and Public Policy Grove City College References Cameron, P.C., & Cameron, K.C. (2007). Federal distortion of homosexual footprint. (Ignoring early gay death?). Poster presentation at the Eastern Psychological Association Annual Convention, March 2007, Philadelphia, PA, retrieved from http://www.earnedmedia.org/frireport.htm on April 19, 2007. Hogg R.S., Strathdee S.A., Craib K.J.P., O'Shaughnessy M.V., Montaner J.S.G., Schechter M.T. (1997). Modelling the impact of HIV disease on mortality in gay men. International Journal of Epidemiology, 26, 65761. Hogg, R.S., Strathdee, S.A., Craib, K.J.P, O'Shaughnessy M.V, Montaner, J., & Schechter, M.T. (2001). Gay life expectancy revisited. International Journal of Epidemiology, 30, 1499. Johnson, M.J., Jackson, N.C., Arnette, J.K., & Koffman, S.D. (2005). Gay and lesbian perceptions of discrimination in retirement care facilities. Journal of Homosexuality, 49, 83-102. Kinnish, K.K., Strassberg, D.S., & Turner, C.W. (2005). Sex differences in the flexibility of sexual orientation: A multidimensional retrospective assessment. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 34, 173-183. 8Bfg|  + - 9 : N P  , - a + N [\{-/01~3k'7޾̢̢̞̞h4%h4 hzaJ h$uaJ h4%aJ h1aJ hL"aJh3Ih1 hEh jhEh Uh hYhkT hEhYhz hEhO>h4> , . 01cdc 7$8$H$^gd%# 7$8$H$gd 7$8$H$gdMJF7kdjbdz  *+    ? 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