ION By Plato Translated by Benjamin Jowett Persons of the ...



ION

ΙΩΝ

[OR CONCERING THE ILIAD , VALIDATIVE]

[ Η ΠΕΡΙ ΙΛΙ“ΔΟΣ , ΠΕΙΡ“ΣΤΙΚΟΣ]

The Persons of The Dialogue : Socrates , Ion

τα προσωπα του διαλογου : Σωκρατες , Ιων

Socrates: Welcome , Ion . From what places have you now come to pay us this visit ?

530 χαιρειν Το Ιωνα . Ποθεν τα νυν ημιν επιδεδημηκας ;

Or have you come from your native city of Ephesus ?

η εξ οικοθεν Εφεσου ;

Ion: Not at all , O Socrates , but from Epidaurus , from the festivities of Asclepius .

Ουδαμως , ω Σωκρατες , αλλ εξ Επιδαυρου εκ των “σκληπιειων .

Soc: Do the Epidaurians also hold contests of rhapsodes in honor to The God ?

Μων οι Επιδαυριοι και τιθεασι αγωνα ραψωδων τω θεω ;

Ion: Very much so ; and indeed of every other kind of Music .

Πανυ γε , και γε της αλλης μουσικης .

Soc: What then ? Were you one of our competitors ? And how well did you compete ?

Τι ουν ; τι ημιν ηγωνιζου ; και πως τι ηγωνισω ;

Ion: We took first place among the contestants , O Socrates .

ηνεγκαμεθα Τα πρωτα των αθλων , ω Σωκρατες .

Soc: Well done ! Surely then , we must go on in such a way and win at The Panathenaea .

530b Ευ λεγεις : δη αγε οπως και νικησομεν τα Παναθηναια .

Ion: Then it will be so , if God wills it .

“λλ’ εσται ταυτα , εαν θεος εθελη .

Soc: And I most certainly often envy , That Art , of you rhapsodes , O Ion ; for on the one hand ,

Και φε μην πολλακις εζηλωσα , της τεχνης , υμας τους ραψωδους , ω Ιωνα : γαρ μεν

your person must always be adorned with fine clothes , and at the same time to look as beautiful

υμων το σωμα αει ειναι κεκοσμησθαι πρεπον αμα φαινεσθαι ως καλλιστοις

as you can is also part of your Art . And on the other hand , at the same time you are obliged to spend

και τη τεχνη τε και δε αμα ειναι αναγκαιον δια−

your time in the company of many other Good poets; and most especially in that of Homer, who is the

−τριβειν εν πολλοις αλλοις αγαθοις ποιηταις και δη και μαλιστα εν Ομηρω , τω

Best and Most Divine of the poets; and to learn to understand his Mind , and not only

530c αριστω και θειοτατω των ποιητων , και εκμανθανειν τουτου την διανοιαν , μη μονον

his verses , is quite enviable . For no one can ever become a good rhapsode , if they do not

τα επη , εστιν ζηλωτον . γαρ ου αν ποτε γενοιτο αγαθος ραψωδος , ει μη

understand the meaning of the poet . For the rhapsode must become the messenger of the mind

συνειη τα λεγομενα υπο του ποιητου . γαρ το ραψωδον δει γιγνεσθαι ερμηνεα της διανοιας

of the poet to his audience . But to do this is impossible , unless he Recognizes Correctly what the poet

του ποιητου τοις ακουουσι : δε ποιειν τουτο αδυνατον μη γιγνωσκοντα καλως ο τι ο ποιητης

means . Therefore all this is quite properly to be envied .

λεγει . ουν παντα ταυτα αξια ζηλουσθαι .

Ion: What you say is true , O Socrates ; Surely then , for me , this aspect has turned out to be the most

λεγεις “ληθη , ω Σωκρατες : γουν εμοι τουτο παρεσχε πλειστον

laborious part of the art ; and I believe I am better qualified to speak about Homer than anyone at all ;

εργον της τεχνης , και οιμαι καλλιστα λεγειν περι Ομηρου ανθρωπων ,

so that neither Metrodoros of Lampsakenos, nor Stesimbrotos of Thasios , nor Glaucon , nor

530d ως ουτε Μητροδωρος ο Λαμψακηνος ουτε Στησιμβροτος ο Θασιος ουτε Γλαυκων ουτε

anyone else who ever was born , could speak as many and as fine thoughts

ουδεις αλλος των πωποτε γενομενων εσχεν ειπειν ουτω πολλας και καλας διανοιας

about Homer as I can .

περι Ομηρου , οσας εγω .

Soc: What you say is Good , O Ion ; for it is clear that you will not refuse me a demonstration .

λεγεις Ευ , ω Ιων : γαρ δηλον οτι ου φθονησεις μοι επιδειξαι .

Ion: And it is most certainly worth hearing , O Socrates , how well I have adorned Homer .

Και γε μην αξιον ακουσαι , ω Σωκρατες , ως ευ κεκοσμηκα τον Ομηρον :

So that I think that I deserve to be crowned by the Homeric Society with their golden crown .

ωστε οιμαι αξιος ειναι στεφανωθηναι υπο Ομηριδων χρυσω στεφανω .

Soc: And I will certainly still make some leisure to hear you , but now , just answer me the following ;

531 Και εγω μην ετι ποιησομαι σχολην ακροασασθαι σου : δε νυν αποκριναι μοι τοσονδε :

whether you are also skilled in Hesiod and Archilochos , or solely in Homer ?

ποτερον ει και δεινος περι Ησιοδου και “ρχιλοχου η μονον περι Ομηρου ;

Ion: Not at all , but solely in Homer ; for to me , he appears to be enough .

Ουδαμως , αλλα μονον περι Ομηρου : γαρ μοι δοκει ειναι ικανον .

Soc: But is there something about which both Homer and Hesiod say the same thing ?

δε Εστι οτου περι τε Ομηρος και Ησιοδος λεγετον ταυτα ;

Ion: As far as I am concerned , I believe there are many .

εγωγε Οιμαι και πολλα .

Soc: Therefore , in regards to these matters , can you explain/ interpret better

ουν Ποτερον περι τουτων αν εξηγησαιο καλλιον

that which Homer says , or that which Hesiod says ?

α Ομηρος λεγει η α Ησιοδος ;

Ion: I can indeed interpret them in a similar way , O Socrates , where they speak about the same things .

αν γε τουτων περι Ομοιως , ω Σωκρατες , ων λεγουσιν περι ταυτα .

Soc: But then , what about when they do not say the same things ? For example , both Homer and

531b δε Τι περι ων μη λεγουσιν ταυτα ; οιον τε Ομηρος και

Hesiod have something to say about divination .

Ησιοδος τι λεγει περι μαντικης .

Ion: Very much so . (Πανυ γε .)

Soc: What then ? Would you or a good diviner/seer/prophet better interpret/explain that about which

Τι ουν ; ποτερον αν συ η τις των αγαθων των μαντεων καλλιον εξηγησαιο τουτω περι

these poets say about divination ; about both those things that are alike , and those that are different ?

τω ποιητα λεγετον περι μαντικης , τε οσα ομοιως και οσα διαφορως ;

Ion: A diviner . (των μαντεων.)

Soc: Then if you were a diviner , would you not , be able to explain both how their statements

δε Ει συ ησθα μαντις , ουκ , οιος εξηγησασθαι τ’ περι των λεγομενων

are similar , as well as to know how to explain how their statements differ ?

ησθα ομοιως , και ειπερ ηπιστω αν εξηγεισθαι περι των λεγομενων διαφορως ;

Ion: That is clear . (οτι Δηλον .)

Soc: How then do you come to have this skill about Homer only , but not about Hesiod , nor the

531c Τι ουν ποτε ει δεινος περι Ομηρου μεν , δε ου περι Ησιοδου , ουδε των

other poets ? Or does Homer speak about those very themes about which all other poets speak ?

αλλων ποιητων ; η Ομηρος λεγει περι τινων αλλων η ωνπερ συμπαντες οι αλλοι ποιηται ;

Does he not discuss in detail everything pertaining to war and about the interaction of human beings

ου διεληλυθε τα πολλα περι πολεμου τε και περι ομιλιων ανθρωπων

with each other , good and bad , privately and publicly , and also of The Communion of The Gods

προς αλληλους αγαθων τε και κακων και ιδιωτων και δημιουργων, και περι ομιλουντων θεων

with one another and with human beings , how they carry on , and about what happens in Heaven and

προς αλληλους και προς ανθρωπους , ως ομιλουσι , και περι των παθηματων ουρανιων και

about what happens in Hades , and about the generation of Gods and Heroes ? Are these not ,

περι των εν “ιδου , και γενεσεις και θεων και ηρωων ; εστι ταυτα ου

the themes about which Homer made his poetry ?

531d την περι ων Ομηρος πεποιηκεν ;

Ion: What you say is true , O Socrates .

λεγεις “ληθη , ω Σωκρατες .

Soc: What then of the other poets ? Did they not speak about the same themes ?

Τι δε οι αλλοι ποιηται ; ου περι των αυτων τουτων ;

Ion: Yes , O Socrates ; but they did not make poetry in the same way as Homer .

Ναι , ω Σωκρατες , αλλ’ουχ πεποιηκασι ομοιως και Ομηρος .

Soc: What then ? In a worse way ?

Τι μην ; κακιον ;

Ion: Very much so . (Πολυ γε .)

Soc: But Homer in a Better way ?

δε Ομηρος αμεινον ;

Ion: Of course he is better , by Zeus !

μεντοι “μεινον νη Δια .

Soc: Is it not so , O dear astute Ion , that when many people are having a discussion about arithmetic

Ουκουν , ω φιλη κεφαλη Ιων , οταν πολλων λεγοντων περι αριθμου

and someone speaks best , without a doubt , there is one who recognizes the one who speaks Well ?

τις εις λεγη αριστα , δηπου τις γνωσεται τον λεγοντα ευ ;

Ion: I should say so . (Φημι .)

Soc: Then will it be the same person , who can also pick out those who speak badly , or another person ?

531e ουν Ποτερον ο αυτος , οσπερ και τους λεγοντας κακως , η αλλος ;

Ion: The same one , without a doubt .

Ο αυτος δηπου .

Soc: Is it not so then , that this person is the one who possesses The Art of Arithmetic ?

Ουκουν ουτος εστιν ο εχων την τεχνην αριθμητικην ;

Ion: Yes . (Ναι .)

Soc: What then ? When many people are having a discussion about what kind of food is Wholesome ,

Τι δ’ ; οταν πολλων λεγοντων περι οποια σιτιων εστιν υγιεινων ,

and someone speaks Best , will the one who recognizes that the best speaker speaks best, be one person,

τις εις λεγη αριστα , ποτερον τις γνωσεται οτι τον αριστα λεγοντα λεγει αριστα μεν ετερος

whereas the one who recognizes that the worse speaker speaks worse , be another person , or will it be

τον οτι κακιον κακιον δε ετερος , η

the same person ?

ο αυτος ;

Ion: It is clear beyond a doubt , that it is the same person .

Δηλον δηπου , ο αυτος .

Soc: Who is this person ? What is their name ?

Τις ουτος ; τι αυτω ονομα ;

Ion: Physician/doctor/healer .

Ιατρος .

Soc: Is it not generally so then , that we say that the same person will always recognize , the one who

Ουκουν εν κεφαλαιω , λεγωμεν ως ο αυτος αει γνωσεται οστις

speaks Well and also the one who speaks badly , when many people are having a discussion about

λεγει ευ τε και οστις κακως πολλων λεγοντων περι

the same subjects , or else , if they do not know the one who speaks badly , then it is indeed clear that

532 των αυτων , η ει μη γνωσεται τον λεγοντα κακως , γε δηλον οτι

they will neither know the one who speaks Well , about the same subject .

ουδε τον ευ , περι του αυτου .

Ion: This is so . (Ουτως.)

Soc: Is it not so then , that the same person has come to be skilful in both ?

Ουκουν ο αυτος γιγνεται δεινος περι αμφοτερων ;

Ion: Yes . (Ναι .)

Soc: Is it not so then , that you say that both Homer and the other poets -among which are included

Ουκουν συ φης και Ομηρον και τους αλλους ποιητας , εν οις εστι και

Hesiod and Archilochos- indeed speak about the same subjects , although not in the same way ;

Ησιοδος και “ρχιλοχος , γε λεγειν περι των αυτων , αλλ’ ουχ ομοιως ,

since the one speaks Well , while the other speaks worse ?

αλλα τον μεν ευ , τους δε χειρον ;

Ion: And what I say is true .

Και λεγω αληθη .

Soc: Is it not so then , that if indeed you recognize the one who speaks Well , then you will also

532b Ουκουν ειπερ γιγνωσκεις τον λεγοντα ευ , αν και

recognize those who speak worse because they speak worse ?

γιγνωσκοις τους λεγοντας χειρον οτι λεγουσιν χειρον .

Ion: That is very likely . (Εοικε γε .)

Soc: Is it not so then , O Excellent One , that if we say that Ion is equally Skilled in Homer and

Ουκουν , ω βελτιστε , λεγοντες τον Ιωνα ειναι ομοιως δεινον περι Ομηρου τε

also in the other poets , then we shall not miss the mark , seeing that he himself acknowledges that

και περι των αλλων ποιητων ουχ αμαρτησομεθα , επειδη γε αυτος ομολογη

the same person will be a sufficient judge , of all those who speak about the same subjects , since

τον αυτον εσεσθαι ικανον κριτην , παντων οσοι λεγωσι περι των αυτων , δε

almost all of the poets make their poetry on the same subjects .

σχεδον απαντας τους ποιητας ποιειν τα αυτα .

Ion: What ever then , O Socrates , is the reason that I am unable to offer up my mind , nor can I

Τι ποτε ουν , ω Σωκρατες , το αιτιον οτι εγω αδυνατω προσεχω τον νουν ουτε τε και

put together a speech that is worth anything , when any one speaks on the one hand , of any other poet ,

532c συμβαλεσθαι λογου αξιον οτιουν , οταν τις διαλεγηται μεν περι του αλλου ποιητου ,

but I just simply go to asleep , whereas on the other hand , whenever anything is brought to mind about αλλ’ ατεχνως νυσταζω , δε επειδαν τις μνησθη περι

Homer , then I wake up at once , and I offer up my mind and I have plenty to say ?

Ομηρου , τε εγρηγορα ευθυς και προσεχω τον νουν και ευπορω ο τι λεγω ?

Soc: The reason , O companion , is indeed not difficult to guess . Since it is clear to everyone , that you

τουτο , ω εταιρε , γε Ου χαλεπον εικασαι , αλλα δηλον παντι οτι

are not able to speak about Homer by Art and Knowledge . For if you were enabled by Art , then you

αδυνατος λεγειν περι Ομηρου τεχνη και επιστημη : γαρ ει ησθα οιος τεχνη

would have also been able to speak about all the other poets ; for there is , I suppose , an Art of Poetry

αν ησθα τε και οιος τ’ λεγειν περι απαντων των αλλων ποιητων : γαρ εστι που ποιητικη

as a Whole . Or is this not so ?

το ολον . η ου ;

Ion: Yes it is so .(Ναι .)

Soc: Is it not so then , that whenever anyone Grasps any other Art as a Whole , the same way

Ουκουν και επειδαν τις λαβη ηντινουν αλλην τεχνην ολην , ο αυτος τροπος

of investigation holds true for all the other Arts ? What do I mean by this ? Do you need some

της σκεψεως εστι περι απασων των τεχνων ; πως λεγω τουτο , δεη τι

explanation from me , O Ion ?

ακουσαι μου , ω Ιων ;

Ion: Yes , by Zeus , I do indeed , O Socrates , for I enjoy listening to you wise men .

Ναι μα τον Δι’ , εγωγε , ω Σωκρατες , γαρ χαιρω ακουων των υμων σοφων .

Soc: I do wish that what you say were true , O Ion . But on the one hand , you rhapsodes and actors ,

που Βουλοιμην σε λεγειν αν αληθη , ω Ιων : αλλα μεν υμεις οι ραψωδοι και υποκριται

and those whose verses you sing , are wise , whereas on the other hand , I am none other , than one

και ων τα ποιηματα υμεις αδετε , εστε σοφοι , δε εγω ουδεν αλλο η

who speaks The Truth ; just like a common human being . And since in regard to this question which

532e λεγω ταληθη , οιον εικος ιδιωτην ανθρωπον . και επει περι τουτου ου

I just now asked you , observe what a trifling and typical thing it is and which I said that any person

νυν ηρομην σε , θεασαι ως φαυλον και ιδιωτικον εστι και ο ελεγον παντος ανδρος

may Know ; that whenever anyone grasps any Art as a Whole , the enquiry is the same .

γνωναι , επειδαν τις λαβη τεχνην ολην την σκεψιν ειναι αυτην .

Suppose that we take painting for our enquiry ; for there is an Art of the Whole of painting ;

λαβωμεν γραφικη γαρ τω λογω : γαρ εστι τις τεχνη το ολον ;

Ion: Yes . (Ναι .)

Soc: Is it not so then , that there are and have also been many painters that are both Good and bad ?

Ουκουν και εισι και γεγονασιν πολλοι γραφης και αγαθοι και φαυλοι ;

Ion: Very much so .(Πανυ γε .)

Soc: Therefore , do you know anyone who is , on the one hand , Skilful in unfolding/revealing/showing

ουν Ηδη ειδες τινα , οστις εστιν μεν δεινος περι αποφαινειν

that which Polygnotos the son of Aglaophontos painted Well , and also that which was not , while on the

α Πολυγνωτου του “γλαοφωντος γραφει ευ , τε και α μη ,

other hand , they are incapable when it involves the other painters ? And on the one hand , whenever

533 δε αδυνατος περι των αλλων γραφεων ; και μεν επειδαν

the works of the other painters is displayed , they go to sleep and are at a loss , and have nothing

τα εργα περι των αλλων ζωγραφεων επιδεικνυη , νυσταζει τε και απορει και εχει ουκ ο τι

to offer , while on the other hand , whenever they had to reveal their thought about Polygnotos of the

συμβαλητα , δε επειδαν δεη αποφηνασθαι γνωμην περι Πολυγνωτου των

painters they like , other than that one only , woke up and offered up their mind and had plenty to say ?

γραφεων βουλει αλλου η οτου ενος μονου, εγρηγορε τε και προσεχει τον νουν και ευπορει ο τι ειπη ;

Ion: No by Zeus , not ever at all .

Ου μα τον Δια , ου δητα .

Soc: What next ? Do you know anyone in sculpture , on the one hand , who is Skilful in explaining

Τι δε ; ηδη ειδες τιν’ εν ανδριαντοποια , μεν οστις εστιν δεινος περι εξηγεισθαι

which creations were created Well by Daedalos the son of Metionos , or by Epeios the son of Panopeos ,

533b α πεποιηκεν ευ περι Δαιδαλου του Μητιονος η Επειου του Πανοπεως

or by Theodoros of Samos , or by any other single sculptor ; whereas on the other hand , when it comes

η Θεοδωρουτου του Σαμιου η τινος αλλου ενος ανδριαντοποιου , δε εν

to the works of the other sculptors , they are at a loss and go to sleep , having nothing to say ?

τοις εργοις των αλλων ανδριαντοποιων απορει τε και νυσταζει , εχων ουκ ο τι ειπη ;

Ion: No by Zeus , I have never seen such a person .

Ου μα τον Δια , ουδε εωρακα τουτον .

Soc: Then certainly , as I indeed suspect , nor have you ever known anyone among the flutists nor

“λλα μην , ως εγω γ’ οιμαι , ουδ’ ουδεπωποτ’ ειδες ανδρα εν αυλησει ουδε

indeed among the harpists nor among singers to the harp nor among the rhapsodes , who was Skilful

γε εν κιθαρισει ουδε εν κιθαρωδια ουδε εν ραψωδια , οστις εστιν δεινος

on the one hand , in explaining/unfolding/illustrating Olympos or Thamyros or Orpheus or Phemios the

533c μεν περι εξηγεισθαι Ολυμπου η περι Θαμυρου η περι Ορφεως η περι Φημιου του

rhapsode of Ithaca , but on the other hand , was at a loss when it came to explain Ion of Ephesus ,

ραψωδου Ιθακησιου , δε απορει περι Ιωνος του Εφεσιου

and had nothing to offer , concerning what he recites Well , and what he does not .

και εχει ουκ συμβαλεσθαι , τε α ραψωδει ευ και α μη .

Ion: I cannot contradict this that you say , O Socrates . But I am well-aware of this about myself ;

533d εχω Ουκ αντιλεγειν τουτου σοι , ω Σωκρατες : αλλ’ συνοιδα εκεινο περι εμαυτω ,

that of all human beings I speak best and all the other rhapsodes say that I speak well and have plenty

οτι ανθρωπων λεγω καλλιστ’ και παντες οι αλλοι φασιν με λεγειν ευ και ευπορω

to say about Homer , but not about the others . So now , see if you can tell why this is so .

περι Ομηρου , δε ου περι των αλλων . καιτοι ορα τι τουτο εστιν .

Soc: And I do see , O Ion ; and I am indeed going to reveal to you in which way this appears to be

Και ορω , ω Ιων , και γε ερχομαι αποφανουμενος σοι ο τουτο δοκει ειναι

to me . For on the one hand , this is not an Art by means of which you speak Well about Homer ,

μοι . γαρ μεν τουτο εστι ουκ τεχνη παρα ον σοι λεγειν ευ περι Ομηρου ,

which I was just now saying , whereas on the other hand , a Divine Power , surely moves you , just as

ο δη νυν ελεγον , δε θεια δυναμις , η κινει σε , ωσπερ

in the stone , which Euripides on the one hand , calls a Magnet , whereas the many call it Heraclean .

εν τη λιθω , ην Ευριπιδης μεν ωνομασεν Μαγνητιν , δε οι πολλοι Ηρακλειαν .

For This Very Stone not only attracts/leads-up/draws-up these iron rings , but It also imparts to those

533e γαρ η αυτη λιθος ου μονον αγει τους σιδηρους τους δακτυλιους, αλλα και εντιθησι τοις

rings , this very same power to do that which the stone does ; to empower them in turn to attract other

δακτυλιοις, τουτο ταυτον δυναμιν ποιειν οπερ η λιθος ωστ’δυνασθαι αυτους αυ αγειν αλλους

rings , so that sometimes , a very long chain of iron rings are suspended from each other . Therefore ,

δακτυλιοις ωστ’ ενιοτε πανυ μακρος ορμαθος σιδηριων δακτυλιων ηρτηται εξ αλληλων : δε

all of them depend upon the power from That Stone . Thus , so also , on the one hand ,The Muse

πασι τουτοις ανηρτηται η δυναμις εξ εκεινης της λιθου . δε ουτω και μεν η Μουσα

Herself moves those who are Inspired ; while on the other hand , through these Inspired ones , others

αυτη ποιει ενθεους , δε δια τουτων των ενθεων αλλων

are Inspired and are Suspended in a chain . For all those who are Good Epic poets , are also said

ενθουσιαζοντων εξαρταται ορμαθος . γαρ παντες οι αγαθοι των επων οι ποιηται τε και λεγουσι

to compose all their beautiful poems not by Art , but by being Inspired and Possessed . The same holds

παντα ταυτα τα καλα ποιηματα ουκ εκ τεχνης αλλ’ οντες ενθεοι και κατεχομενοι , ωσαυτως

534 true for the Good Lyric poets , for just as the Corybants dance when they are out of their mind ,

και οι αγαθοι οι μελοποιοι , ωσπερ οι κορυβαντιωντες ορχουνται οντες ουκ εμφρονες ,

so also , the Lyric poets are out of their mind when they compose their beautiful melodies , since

ουτω και οι μελοποιοι οντες ουκ εμφρονες ποιουσιν ταυτα τα καλα μελη , αλλ’

whenever they embark into their Harmony and into their Rhythm , they become Frantic and Possessed ;

επειδαν εμβωσιν εις την αρμονιαν και εις τον ρυθμον , βακχευουσι και κατεχομενοι ,

just as the Bacchants draw milk and honey from the rivers , since they are possessed out of their minds ,

ωσπερ αι βακχαι αρυονται γαλα και μελι εκ των ποταμων δε ουσαι κατεχομεναι ου εμφρονες ,

And the soul of the lyric poets also does this , as they themselves say . For surely then , they say that

και η ψυχη των μελοποιων εργαζεται τουτο , οπερ αυτοι λεγουσι . γαρ δηπουθεν λεγουσι οτι

just like , honey-bees bring their honey to us , so also , do they wing their way to us from certain

ωσπερ αι μελιτται φερουσιν τα μελη ημιν , ουτω και αυτοι πετομενοι προς ημας απο τινων

Gardens and Dells of The Muses and from Their Honeyed Fountains they refine their Honeyed-Songs .

534b κηπων και ναπων Μουσων και εκ μελιρρυτων κρηνων δρεπομενοι οι ποιηται :

And what they say is True . For the poet is an Ethereal and Winged and Holy creature , but before that

και λεγουσι αληθη . γαρ ποιητης εστι κουφον και πτηνον και ιερον χρημα , τε προτερον

time , they are unable to create , until they are Inspired and are out of their mind and are no longer

και ου οιος ποιειν , αν πριν γενηται ενθεος τε εκφρων και μηκετι

in possession of their own mind . But as long as they are in possession of this , every human being , is

εν ενη αυτω ο νους : δ’ εως αν εχη το κτημα τουτι , πας ανθρωπος εστι

also unable to chant Oracles/Prophesy . Then seeing that the many and Noble words which poets speak

και αδυνατος χρησμωδειν . ουν ατε και πολλα και καλα λεγοντες

about human transactions , are not created by Art , but by Divine Dispensation ; just as you speak about

534c περι των πραγματων , ου ποιουντες τεχνη , αλλα θεια μοιρα , ωσπερ συ περι

Homer . Therefore , the only poetry that each poet is able to compose/create/make Well , is that which

Ομηρου , μονον τουτο τε εκαστος οιος ποιειν καλως , ο

Their Muse has impelled them to make ; thus one of them will make hymns of praise , while another

η Μουσα ωρμησεν εφ , ο μεν εκκωμια , ο δε

makes choral hymns , and another dithyrambic , and another iambic , and yet another epic verses . But

υπορχηματα , ο δε διθυραμβους , ο δ’ ιαμβους , ο δ’ επη : δ’

in every other kind , each of them is a failure . For it is not by Art that they speak these verses , but by a

τα αλλα εκαστος αυτων εστιν φαυλος . γαρ ου τεχνη λεγουσιν ταυτα , αλλα

Divine Power . For if they Knew how to speak Well about One Art , then they would have also Known

θεια δυναμει , επει , ει ηπισταντο λεγειν καλως περι ενος τεχνη , καν

how to speak Well about all the others . Therefore God takes away their Mind , to Use them

περι απαντων των αλλων : δε ο θεος εξαιρουμενος τουτων τον νουν , χρηται τουτοις as His Servants , and as His Oracles and as His Divine Seers , in order that those of us who hear

534d υπηρεταις και τοις χρησμωδοις και τοις θειοις τοις μαντεσι , ινα οι ημεις ακουοντες

may know , that those who thus speak these very precious words , are those whose Mind is not present ,

ειδωμεν , οτι ουτοι οι ουτω λεγοντες ταυτα πολλου αξια εισιν οις νους μη ουχ παρεστιν ,

but that God Himself is The One who Speaks , so that He is conversing with us through them . Thus ,

αλλ’ ο θεος αυτος εστιν ο λεγων , δε φθεγγεται προς ημας δια τουτων . δε

Tunnichos the Chalcidian presents a great proof of what I mean ; who on the one hand , never composed

Τυννιχος ο Χαλκιδευς μεγιστον τεκμηριον τω λογω , ος μεν ουδεν πωποτ’ εποιησε

any poem , that anyone would care to remember , while on the other hand , the Song of Praise to Apollo

αλλο ποιημα , οτου τις αν αξιωσειε μνησθηναι , δε τον παιωνα

which everyone sings , is very near the most beautiful of all the lyric songs , and is simply , just as he

ον παντες αδουσι , σχεδον τι καλλιστον παντων μελων , ατεχνως , οπερ αυτος

says , “An Invention from The Muses”. For it most surely appears to me , so that we may not doubt ,

λεγει , ”τι ευρημα Μοισαν ” . γαρ μαλιστα δη δοκει μοι ινα μη δισταζωμεν ,

that in this way , God would reveal to us , that these beautiful poems are not human ,

534e εν τουτω ο θεος ενδειξασθαι ημιν , οτι ταυτα τα καλα ποιηματα ουκ ανθρωπινα

nor of human beings , but are Divine and of The Gods ; and thus, the poets are nothing else than the

ουδε ανθρωπων , αλλα θεια και θεων , δε οι ποιηται εισι ουδεν αλλ’ η

Conduits/Messengers of The Gods , being possessed by whatever God each of them may be possessed .

ερμηνης των θεων , κατεξομενοι εξ οτου εκαστος αν κατεχηται .

By this design , God Revealed that the very best of songs was sent , through the very worst of poets .

ταυτα εξεπιτηδες ο θεος ενδεικνυμενος το καλλιστον μελος ησεν δια του φαυλοτατου ποιητου

Or do I not appear to you to speak The Truth , O Ion ?

535 η ου δοκω σοι λεγειν αληθη , ω Ιων ;

Ion: Yes by Zeus , as far as I am concerned ; for your words somehow touch my soul , O Socrates , and

Ναι μα τον Δια , εμοιγε : γαρ τοις λογοις πως απτει μου της ψυχης , ω Σωκρατες , και

it seems to me that it is by Divine Dispensation that Good poets interpret the words of The Gods to us .

δοκουσι μοι παρα θεια μοιρα οι αγαθοι ποιηται ερμηνευειν ταυτα των θεων ημιν .

Soc: Is it not so then , that you rhapsodes are in turn the messengers of the poets ?

Ουκουν υμεις οι ραψωδοι αυ τα ερμηνευετε των ποιητων ;

Ion: And this that you say is true .

Και τουτο λεγεις αληθες .

Soc: Is it not so then , that you are the messengers of messengers ?

Ουκουν γιγνεσθε ερμηνης ερμηνεων ;

Ion: Entirely so indeed ! (Πανταπασι γε .)

Soc: Surely then , you can tell me the following , O Ion , and do not hide what I am going to ask of you ;

535b δη Εχε ειπε μοι τοδε , ω Ιων , και μη αποκρυψη ο τι αν ερωμαι σε :

When you speak your verses Well , and astound/amaze the spectators most , either when you sing how

οταν ειπης επη ευ και εκπληξης τους θεωμενους μαλιστα , η οταν αδης

Odysseus leaps-forth upon the threshold , and reveals himself to the suitors and spreads his

Οδυσσεα εφαλλομενον επι τον ουδον , εκφανη γιγνομενον τοις μνηστηρσι και εκχεοντα τους

arrows at his feet, or when you sing of Achilles rushing upon Hector, or about any of the sorrows of

οιστους προ των ποδων , η “χιλλεα ορμωντα επι τον Εκτορα , η περι τι των ελεινων και

Andromache , or of Hecuba , or of Priam . At that time , are you in possession of your mind , or are you

“νδραμαχην η περι Εκαβην η περι Πριαμον , τοτε ποτερον ει εμφρων , η γιγνη

outside yourself , and does your soul seem to be in ecstasy and present among those affairs of which

535c εξω σαυτου και σου η ψυχη οιεται ειναι ενθουσιαζουσα παρα τοις πραγμασιν οις

you are speaking , whether they are in Ithaca or in Troy or wherever the epic scene may happen to be ?

λεγεις , η ουσιν εν Ιθακη η εν Τροια η οπως τα επη αν και εχη ;

Ion: How very clear to me , O Socrates , is this proof of which you speak . For I confess to you without

Ως εναργες μοι , ω Σωκρατες , τουτο τεκμηριον το ειπες : γαρ ερω σε ου

covering it up . For whenever I speak of any sorrow , my eyes are filled-full of tears ,

αποκρυψαμενος . γαρ οταν εγω λεγω τι ελεεινον , μου οι οφθαλμοι εμπιπλανται δακρυων :

and when I speak of any fear or terror , my hair stands straight-up and my heart throbs out of fear .

τε οταν φοβερον η δεινον , αι τριχες ιστανται ορθαι και η καρδια πηδα υπο φοβου .

Soc: Why then ? Are we to say , O Ion , that at the time when such a man at a sacrifice or a festival ,

535d Τι ουν ; φωμεν , ω Ιων , τοτε τουτον τον ανθρωπον τ’ εν θυσιαις και εορταις ,

who is elaborately dressed in decorous attire and golden crowns , weeps , while none of this finery

ος αν ποικιλη εσθητι κεκοσμημενος και χρυσοις στεφανοις κλαιη , μηδεν τουτων

has been lost , or is terrified in the presence of more than twenty thousand friendly human beings .

απολωλεκως , η φοβηται εν εστηκως πλεον η δισμυριοις φιλιοις ανθρωποις ,

Is he in possession of his mind , when no one robs or wrongs him ?

ειναι εμφρονων μηδενος αποδυοντος η αδικουντος ;

Ion: No by Zeus , O Socrates , not at all , if I am to speak the very truth .

Ου μα τον Δια , ω Σωκρατες , ου πανυ , ως ειρησθαι γε ταληθες !

Soc: Then do you know that these same effects are also produced on the majority of your spectators ?

ουν Οισθα οτι ταυτα ταυτα και εργαζεσθε τους πολλους υμεις των θεατων ;

Ion: I know it and very well ! For I look over each of them from the stage above , and

535e οιδα Και μαλα καλως : γαρ καθορω εκαστοτε αυτους απο του βηματος ανωθεν τε

look upon their faces that are weeping or fearful or astonished at the words I say . For I must also

εμβλεποντας κλαιοντας και δεινον και συνθαμβουντας τοις λεγομενοις . γαρ με δει και

pay close attention to them ; because if , on the one hand , I make them cry , then I myself shall laugh ,

προσεχειν σφοδρ’ τον νουν αυτοις : ως εαν μεν καθιζω αυτους κλαιοντας , αυτος γελασομαι

at the silver I shall take-in , whereas on the other hand , if I make them laugh , then I myself shall cry ,

αργυριον λαμβανων , δε εαν γελωντας , αυτος κλαυσομαι

at the silver I shall lose .

αργυριον απολλυς .

Soc: Then do you know that the spectator is the last of those rings , which I described as receiving

ουν Οισθα οτι ο θεατης εστιν ο εσχατος ουτος των δακτυλιων , ωη εγω ελεγον λαμβανειν

the power of the Heraclean stone from one another ? Therefore , you , the rhapsode and the actor are

την δυναμιν υπο της Ηρακλειωτιδος λιθου απ’ αλληλων ; δε συ ο ραψωδος και υποκριτης

the middle rings , but the poet himself is the first ring . Therefore , God draws the human soul by means

536 ο μεσος , δε ο ποιητης αυτος ο πρωτος : δε ο θεος ελκει την ανθρωπων ψυχην δια

of all these rings wherever He may will , by suspending the power from each other . And just like

παντων τουτων οποι αν βουληται , ανακρεμαννυς την δυναμιν εξ αλληλων . και ωσπερ

there is a vast chain of suspended rings who hang from the side of that stone ,

παμπολυς ορμαθος των εξηρτημενων δακτυλιων εκκρεμαμενων εκ πλαγιου της εκεινης λιθου ,

so also are there dancers and teachers and teachers-aides who are suspended from The Muse . And so ,

τε χορευτων και διδασκαλων και υποδιδασκαλων εξηρτηται εκ της Μουσης . και

one of the poets is suspended from one Muse , while another poet is suspended from another Muse ,

ο μεν των ποιητων εξηρτηται εξ αλλης Μουσης , ο δε εξ αλλης :

by whom we say they are thus possessed ; for it is much like that ; for they are held/kept/lead/borne .

536b ονομαζομεν αυτο δε κατεχεται : δε εστι παραπλησιον το : γαρ εχεται :

Thus from these first rings , the poets , others in turn , are suspended and inspired

δε εκ τουτων των πρωτων δακτυλιων ,των ποιητων, αλλοι αυ εισι ηρτημενοι και ενθουσιαζουσιν

by others ; some on the one hand , from Orpheus , while others are suspended from Musaeus ; but the

εξ αλλου , οι μεν εξ Ορφεως , δε οι εκ Μουσαιου : δε οι

multitude are possessed and held by Homer . Of whom you , O Ion , are one , and are possessed by

πολλοι κατεχονται τε και εχονται εξ Ομηρου . ων συ , ω Ιων , ει εις και κατεχη εξ

Homer ; and on the one hand , whenever anyone sings the words of another poet , you go to sleep and

Ομηρου , και μεν επειδαν τις αδη του αλλου ποιητου , καθευδεις τε και

are at a loss of what to say , whereas on the other hand , whenever anyone recites a verse of this poet ,

απορεις ο τι λεγεις , δε επειδαν τις φθεγξηται μελος του τουτου ποιντου ,

you immediately wake up and your soul dances , and you are Well-provided with what to say ; for

536c ευθυς εγρηγορας και σου η ψυχη ορχειται και ευπορεις ο τι λεγης : γαρ

it is not by Art nor by Knowledge that you say what you say about Homer , but by Divine Dispensation

ου τεχνη ουδ’ επιστημη λεγεις α λεγεις περι Ομηρου , αλλα θεια μοιρα

and by possession ; just as the Corybants keenly perceive only that melody , which

και κατοκωκη : ωσπερ οι κορυβαντιωντες οξεως αισθανονται μονου εκεινου του μελους , ο

belongs to The God by whom they are possessed , and are Well-provided with gestures and utterances for αν η του θεου εξ οτου αν κατεχωνται , και ευπορουσι και σχηματων και ρηματων

for that melody , but pay no mind to any other . So also with you , O Ion , when , on the one hand ,

εις εκεινο το μελος , δε ου φριντιζουσιν των αλλων : ουτω και συ , ω Ιων , οταν μεν

anyone speaks about Homer , you are a Wealth of information , but about the others , you are at a loss .

τις μνησθη περι Ομηρου , ευπορεις , δε περι των αλλων απορεις :

Then this is the cause , about which you ask me , why on the one hand , you have plenty to say about

536d δ’ τουτου εστι το αιτιον , ο ερωτας μ’ , δι’ ο τι μεν συ ευπορεις περι

Homer , while on the other hand , you have nothing to say about the others ; because your Skill

Ομηρου , δε ου περι των αλλων , οτι δεινος

in praising Homer does not arise by Art but by Divine Dispensation .

επαινετης Ομηρου ου ει τεχνη αλλα θεια μοιρα .

Ion: On the one hand , you speak well , O Socrates ; and yet , I shall be surprised if you could thus

μεν Συ λεγεις ευ , ω Σωκρατες , μεντ’ θαυμαζοιμι ει αν ουτως

speak well enough , to persuade me , that I praise Homer by being possessed and by being mad .

ειποις ευ , ωστε αναπεισαι με , ως εγω επαινω Ομηρου κατεχομενος και μαινομενος .

Thus , I believe that if you heard me speaking about Homer , that you would not think so .

δε οιμαι ει ακουσαις μου λεγοντος περι Ομηρου , σοι αν ουδ’ δοξαιμι .

Soc: And I am certainly indeed willing to listen , but , not until you have answered me the following ;

536e Και μην γε εθελω ακουσαι , μεντοι ου πριν προτερον αν αποκρινη μοι τοδε :

Of which specific topic/theme/subject that Homer speaks about , do you speak Well ?

ων τινος Ομηρος λεγει περι λεγεις ευ ;

For without a doubt , you do not indeed speak Well about everything .

γαρ δηπου ου γε περι απαντων .

Ion: I assure you , O Socrates , I speak well about everything , without any exception .

ισθι , ω Σωκρατες , Ευ περι οτου ου ουδενος .

Soc: Surely not those topics , about which you do not happen to know , but about which Homer speaks .

δηπου Ου μεν τουτων περι ων συ ουκ τυγχανεις ειδως , δε και Ομηρος λεγει .

Ιon: And what are these topics that Homer speaks about , but about which I do not know ?

Και ποια εστιν ταυτα μεν Ομηρος λεγει , δε α εγω ουκ οιδα ;

Soc: But does not Homer often speak and in many places about the Arts ? Such as about charioteering−

537a μεντοι και Ου Ομηρος πολλα λεγει και πολλαχου περι τεχνων ; οιον και περι ηνιοχειας −

if I can remember the verses , I will repeat them to you .

εαν μνησθω τα επη , εγω φρασω σοι .

Ion: Then I will repeat them , for I have them memorized .

“λλ’ εγω ερω : γαρ εγω μεμνημαι .

Soc: Tell me then , what Nestor says to his son Antilochos , where he advices him to be careful

Ειπε μοι δη , α Νεστωρ λεγει τω υιει “ντιλοχω , παραινων ευλαβηθηναι

around the turning-post during the horse-race in honor of Patroclos .

περι την καμπην εν τη ιπποδρομια τη επι Πατροκλω .

Ion: He says : “and then lean over in your polished chariot , slightly to the left of them , and then call

φησι , και δε Κλινθνναι ενι αυτος ευξεστω διφρω , ηκ’επ’αριστερα τοιιν : αταρ ομοκλησας

the horse on the right and urge him on ; and slacken your hands on his reins . Then , let the horse

537b τον ιππον δεξιον κενσαι , τε ειξαι χερσιν οι ηνια . δε τοι ιππος

on the left draw near to the turning-post , so that the nave of the well-made wheel may indeed appear

αριστερος εγχριμφθητω εν νυσση , ως πλημνη τοι ποιητοιο κυκλου αν γε δοασσεται

to come to the edge of it ; and yet avoid grazing the stone” .

ικεσθαι ακρον : δ’ επαυρειν αλεασθαι λιθου .

Soc: That is enough . Then , O Ion , will the physician or the charioteer , better Know

“ρκει . δη , ω Ιων , αν ιατρος η ηνιοχος , αμεινον γνοιη

whether Homer speaks Correctly or not , in these verses ?

ποτερος Ομηρος λεγει ορθως ειτε μη , ταυτα τα επη ;

Ion: The charioteer , without a doubt .

Ηνιοχος δηπου .

Soc: Because he possesses this Art , or for some other reason ?

537c Ποτερον οτι εχει ταυτην τεχνην η κατ’ αλλο τι ;

Ion: No , but because this is his art .

Ουκ , αλλ οτι τεχνην .

Soc: Is it not so then , that each of the Arts is appointed by a certain God to Know a specific Function ?

Ουκουν εκαστη των τεχνων ειναι αποδεδοται υπο τι του θεου γιγνωσκειν οια εργον ;

For that which we Know by the Art of the pilot , we will not also Know by the Art of the healer .

γαρ που α γιγνωσκομεν κυβερνητικη , ου και γνωσομεθα ιατρικη .

Ion: No , not at all . (Ου δητα .)

Soc: Nor indeed that which we know by the Art of the healer ,

Ουδε γε ταυτα α ιατρικη ,

can we also know by the Art of the carpenter .

και τεκτονικη .

Ion: No , not at all . (Ου δητα .)

Soc: Is it not so then , that this is also the case for all the Arts ; for that which we Know by one Art ,

537d Ουκουν ουτω και κατα πασων των τεχνων , α γιγνωσκομεν τη ετερα τεχνη ,

we do not Know with the other ? But before we go on , let me ask you this following question .

ου γνωσομεθα τη ετερα ; δε προτερον μοι αποκριναι τουτου τοδε :

Do you say , that one Art is of one certain Function , while another is of another certain Function ?

φης , την μεν τεχνην ειναι ετεραν τινα , την δ’ ετεραν ;

Ion: Yes . (Ναι .)

Soc: Accordingly then , do you distinguish in this way , just as I do , that when one Knowledge

“ρα συ τεκμαιρομενος ουτω , ωσπερ εγω , οταν η μεν επιστημη

performs one Kind of Function , while another Knowledge performs another Kind of Function ,

η ετερων πραγματων , η δ’ ετερων ,

and in this way , I call one Art by one name , but the other Art by another name .

και ουτω καλω την μεν τεχνην αλλην , την δε αλλην ;

Ion: Yes . (Ναι .)

Soc: For I suppose , that if the Functions of Knowledge were somehow the same , then how could

537e γαρ που Ει των πραγματων επιστημη ειη τις αυτων , τι αν

we say that one was one Kind , but another was another Kind , when you would indeed know

φαιμεν την μεν ειναι ετεραν , την δ’ ειη ετεραν , οποτε γε ειδεναι

the same things from both ? Just as I Know that these are five fingers , and you also

ταυτα απ’ αμφοτερων ; ωσπερ εγω γιγνωσκω οτι ουτοι εισιν πεντε οι δακτυλοι , τε συ και ,

Know the same thing about these fingers , just as I do . And if I were to ask you , whether you and I ,

γιγνωσκεις ταυτα περι τουτων , ωσπερ εγω : και ει εγω εροιμην σε , ει συ τε και εγω

if we Know the same conclusions by the same Art of Arithmetic , or another , you would acknowledge ει γιγνωσκομεν τα αυτα τη αυτη τεχνη τη αριθμητικη , η αλλη , αν φαιης

without a doubt that it was by the same Art .

δηπου τη αυτη

Ion: Yes . (Ναι .)

Soc: Now then , tell me that which I was going to ask you just now , whether it appears to you , that

538 τοινυν , ειπε Ο εμελλον ερησεσθαι σε αρτι νυνι , ει δοκει σοι

this is so for all the Arts ? That on the one hand , it is necessary that we must Know the same things ουτω κατα πασων των τεχνων , μεν ειναι αναγκαιον γιγνωσκειν τα αυτα

by the same Art , whereas on the other hand , not the same things , by another Art , for if indeed it is

τη αυτη τεχνη , δ’ μη τα αυτα τη ετερα , αλλ’ ειπερ εστιν

another Art , then we must necessarily also Know different things ?

αλλη , αναγκαιον και γιγνωσκειν ετερα .

Ion: It appears to me in this way , O Socrates.

δοκει μοι Ουτω . ω Σωκρατες .

Soc: Is it not so then , that whoever does not have a certain Art ,

Ουκουν οστις αν μη εχη τινα τεχνην ,

will not be able to Know/Recognize the things that are said or done Well in that Art ?

εσται ουχ οιος τ’ γιγνωσκειν τα λεγομενα η πραττομενα καλως της ταυτης τεχνης ;

Ion: What you say is true .

538b λεγεις “ληθη .

Soc: Therefore , in regards to the verses which you quoted , would you or the charioteer

ουν περι των επων ων ειπες , ειτε συ η ηνιοχος

Know Better whether Homer speaks Well or not ?

γνωση καλλιον Ποτερων Ομηρος λεγει καλως ειτε μη ;

Ion: The charioteer . (Ηνιοχος .)

Soc: Doubtless because you are a rhapsode , but not a charioteer .

που γαρ ει Ραψωδος , αλλ’ ουχ ηνιοχος .

Ion: Yes . (Ναι .)

Soc: Since the Art of the rhapsode is different from that of the charioteer ?

δε Η τεχνη ραψωδικη εστι ετερα της ηνιοχικης ;

Ion: Yes .(Ναι .)

Soc: Accordingly then , if the Art is different , then it is also a Knowledge about different Functions .

αρα Ει ετερα , εστιν και επιστημη περι ετερων πραγματων .

Ion: Yes . (Ναι .)

Soc: So then , what about the passage when Homer says that , Hecamede , the young girl of Nestor ,

538c δη δε , Τι οταν Ομηρος λεγη ως , Εκαμηδη η παλλακη Νεστορος

gives to the wounded Machaon a potion to drink ? And says something like this ; “Into Pramnian wine ,

διδωσι τω τετρωμενω Μαχαονι κυκεωνα πινειν ; και λεγει πως ουτως : επι Πραμνειω οινω ,

he says , she then grated goat milk cheese with a grater of bronze , then she also grated some onion ,

φησιν , δ’ κνη αιγειον τυρον κνηστι χαλκειη : δε παρα οψον

which adds seasoning to the drink” . Would the Art of reciting or the Art of healing Correctly Diagnose

κρομυον ποτω : ειτε ραψωδικης η ιατρικη ορθως διαγνωσαι

whether Homer does speak these verses Well or not ?

ποτερον Ομηρος εστι λεγει ταυτα καλως ειτε μη ;

Ion: The art of healing . (Ιατρικης .)

Soc: What about when Homer says , “Thus She dove into the deep much like a lead weight ; which has

538d Τι δε , οταν Ομηρος λεγη : δε ερχεται ες βυσσον ικανεν ικελη η μολυβδαινη , η

also been set in the horn of ox that roams the fields , in a rush to bring mischief to the ravenous fish”.

τε κατ’ κερας βοος αγραυλοιο , εμμεμαυια φερουσα πημα μετ’ ωμηστησι ιχθυσι:

Are we to say whether it belongs to the Art of the fisherman rather than to the Art of the rhapsode

φαμεν ποτερων ειναι τεχνης αλιευτικης μαλλον η ραψωδικης

to decide , what he means by this , and whether these lines are spoken Well or not ?

κριναι , αττα λεγει ταυτα και ειτε καλως ειτε μη ;

Ion: Surely then it is clear , O Socrates , that it is the art of the fisherman .

δη Δηλον , ω Σωκρατες , οτι αλιευτικης .

Soc: Surely then consider , if you were the questioner , and were to ask me : “Now then , O Socrates ,

δη Σκεψαι ει σου ερομενου , εροιο με : ” τοινυν , ω Σωκρατες ,

seeing that you find that which is Proper for each of these Arts to Distinguish/Define/Discern in Homer ,

538e επειδη ευρισκεις τα α προσηκει εκαστη τουτων των τεχνων διακρινειν εν Ομηρω ,

come along and find for me that which is itself Proper to be Distinguished by the diviner/prophet and

ιθι και εξευρε μοι ποια α εστιν αυτω προσηκει οιω τ’ειναι διαγιγνωσκειν του μαντεως τε και

the prophetic Art , whether they are Well or badly composed”. Then you will see , how readily and

μαντικης , ειτε ευ ειτε κακως πεποιηται” - σκεψαι ως ραδιως τε και

truly I shall answer you . For on the one hand , in many places , especially in the Odyssey he says ,

αληθη εγω αποκρινουμαι σοι . γαρ μεν πολλαχου και εν Οδυσσεια λεγει ,

such as that which Theoclymenos the prophet of the house of Melampos says to the suitors :

οιον και α Θεοκλυμενος ο μαντις των Μελαμποδιδων λεγει προς τους μνηστηρας :

“Wretched spirits ! What mischief is this that befalls you ? On the one hand , your heads and faces and

539 δαιμονιοι , τι κακον τοδε πασχετε ; μεν υμεων κεφαλαι τε προσωπα τε

limbs are shrouded beneath the darkness of Night ; whereas on the other hand , the cry of lamentation

γυια νερθε νυκτι τε δε οιμωγη

blazes forth , while your cheeks are wet with tears . The vestibule is full , and so is the courtyard full

δεδηε , δε παρειαι δεδακρυνται : προθυρον πλεον δε τε και αυλη πλειη

of phantoms descending under the darkness of Erebus ; since their Sun has been abolished from Heaven,

ειδωλων ιεμενων υπο ζοφον ερεβοσδε : δε ηελιοις εξαπολωλε ουρανου

and now an evil mist spreads abroad” . Then there are also many places in the Iliad ; such as during the

539b δ’ κακη αχλυς επιδεδρομεν : δε και πολλαχου εν Ιλιαδι , οιον και

battle at the palisade , for there he also says : “For when they were eager to cross , a bird-omen came

επι τειχομαχια : γαρ ενταυθα και λεγει γαρ περησεμεναι μεμαωσιν ορνις επηλθε

to them; a soaring eagle , skirting/pressing them on their left , bearing a blood-red , prodigious snake

539c σφιν υψιπετης αιετος , εεργων λαον επ’ αριστερα , φερων φοινηεντα πελωρον δρακοντα

in his talons , still living and struggling ; nor yet forgetful of the joy of battle . For he struck his captor

ονυχεσσι , ετ’ ζωον , ασπαιροντα : και ουπω ληθετο χαρμης . γαρ κοψε αυτον εχοντα

on the breast by the throat by bending backwards , then the eagle in the throes of pain , hurled it from κατα στηθος παρα δειρην ιδνωθεις οπισω , δ’ ο οδυνησι αλγησας εγκαββαλ’ απο

him to the ground , into the middle of the company . Then he shrieked and flew on the blasts of wind” .

539d εθεν χαμαζε δ’ ηκε μεσω ομιλω : δε αυτος κλαγξας πετετο πνοιης ανεμοιο .

These are the sort of things which I would say are Proper for the prophet to Consider and Distinguish .

ταυτα και τα τοιαυτα φησω προσηκειν τω μαντει και σκοπειν και κρινειν .

Ion: You are indeed saying what is true , O Socrates .

συ γε λεγων “ληθη , ω Σωκρατες .

Soc: And so are you , O Ion , in saying these Distinctions are true . Come along then , and do as I did ;

Και γε συ , ω Ιων , λεγεις ταυτα αληθη . ιθι δη και συ εμοι ,

just as I selected for you from both the Odyssey and from the Iliad the Kinds of passages which belong

539e ωσπερ εγω εξελεξα σοι εξ και Οδυσσειας και εξ Ιλιαδος οποια εστι

to the prophet and to the physician and the fisherman , so also , since you are also more acquainted

του μαντεως και οποια του ιατρου και οποια του αλιεως, ουτω και, επειδη ει και εμπειροτερος

with Homer than I am , O Ion , select for me the Kinds of passages which belong to the rhapsode , and

των Ομηρου εμου , ω Ιων , εξλεξον εμοι οποια εστιν του ραψωδου , και

to the Art of the rhapsode , which is Proper for the rhapsode to Consider and Determine , beyond all

της τεχνης της ραψωδικης , α προσηκει τω ραψωδω σκοπεισθαι και διακρινειν παρα τους

other human beings .

αλλους ανθρωπους .

Ion: My reply is , O Socrates , all passages .

Εγω φημε μεν , ω Σωκρατες , απαντα .

Soc: You do not indeed mean all passages , O Ion . Or are you so inclined to forgetfulness (537a) ?

συ Ου γε φης απαντα , ω Ιων : η ει ουτως επιλησμων ;

And yet being inclined to forgetfulness is indeed not Proper for someone who is a rhapsode .

καιτοι επιλησμονα αν γε ουκ πρεποι ανδρα ειναι ραψοδον .

Ion: Surely then , what am I tending to forget ?

540 δη δε Τι επιλανθανομαι ;

Soc: Do you not remember that you declared the Art of the rhapsode to be different from

Ου μεμνησαι οτι εφησθα την τεχνην ραψωδικην ειναι ετεραν

the art of the charioteer?

της ηνιοχικης ;

Ion: I remember .

Μεμνημαι .

Soc: Is it not so then , that you agreed that since they were different ,

ουκουν ωμολογεις ουσαν ετεραν

then they would also Know different Functions ?

και γνωσεσθαι ετερα .

Ion: Yes . (Ναι .)

Soc: So then by your own account , neither will the rhapsode nor the Art of the rhapsode Know

αρα κατα τον σον λογον Ουκ ο ραψωδος ουδε η ραψωδικη γνωσεται

everything indeed .

παντα γε .

Ion: Everything indeed , except perhaps , those kind of things , O Socrates .

γε Πλην ισως τα τοιαυτα , ω Σωκρατες .

Soc: Then , by except those kind of things , you mean nearly all of the Functions of the other Arts .

540b δε πλην Τα τοιαυτα λεγεις σχεδον τι τα των αλλων τεχνων :

Then what kinds of things will rhapsodes Know , seeing that they will not Know everything ?

δη ποια αλλα γνωσεται , επειδη ουχ απαντα ;

Ion: As far as I am concerned , that kind of thing which is proper for a man and a woman to say ,

οιμαι εγωγε , οποια “ πρεπει ανδρι και γυναικι ειπειν ,

and the kind of thing which is proper for a freeman and the kind of thing which is proper for a slave ,

και οποια ελευθερω και οποια δουλω ,

and the kind of thing which is proper for a ruler and the kind of thing which is proper for a subject .

και οποια αρχοντι και οποια αρχομενω .

Soc: Do you mean the Kind of thing which is Proper for The Ruler of a storm-tossed ship at sea to say ?

“ρ’ λεγεις οποια πρεπει αρχοντι χειμαζομενου πλοιου εν θαλαττη ειπειν ,

That the rhapsode will know That better than the pilot ?

ο ραψωδος γνωσεται καλλιον η ο κυβερνητης ;

Ion: No ; but in this case indeed , the pilot will know better .

Ουκ , αλλα τουτο γε ο κυβερνητης .

Soc: Then what Kind of thing is Proper for The Ruler of a sick-person to say ?

540c “λλ’ οποια πρεπει αρχοντι καμνοντος ειπειν ,

Will the rhapsode know That better than the physician ?

ο ραψωδος γνωσεται καλλιον η ο ιατρος ;

Ion: Nor in this case .

Ουδε τουτο .

Soc: But you say that the rhapsode will know , the Kind of thing which is Proper for a slave to say ?

“λλ’ λεγεις οια πρεπει δουλω ;

Ion: Yes .(Ναι .)

Soc: What if the slave were an ox-herd ; do you mean that the rhapsode will know the Kind of thing

Οιον δουλω βουκολω λεγεις ο ραψωδος γνωσεται

which is Proper to say to calm-down enraged bulls , but not the ox-herd ?

α πρεπει ειπειν παραμυθουμενω αγριαινουσων βοων , αλλ’ ουχ ο βουκολος ;

Ion: Not at all . (Ου δητα .)

Soc: But the rhapsode will know the Kind of thing which is Proper for a spinning-woman to say

“λλ’ οια εστιν πρεποντα ταλασιουργω γυναικι ειπειν

about the working of wool ?

περι εργασιας εριων ;

Ion: No . (Ου .)

Soc: But the rhapsode will know the Kind of thing which is Proper for a general to say

540d “λλ’ γνωσεται οια πρεπει στρατηγω ειπειν

when encouraging his troops ?

παραινουντι στρατιωταις ;

Ion: Yes , these are the kind of things which the rhapsode will know .

Ναι , τα τοιαυτα ο ραψωδος γνωσεται .

Soc: What now then ? Is the Art of the rhapsode , the Art of the general ?

Τι δε ; εστιν η τεχνη ραψωδικη στρατηγικη ;

Ion: Surely then I should indeed know the kind of thing which is proper for a general to say .

γουν αν εγωγε Γνοιην οια πρεπει στρατηγον ειπειν .

Soc: Perhaps Ion , if you were also a general . For if you happened to be a horseman as well as

Ισως Ιων , ει και στρατηγικος . γαρ ει ετυγχανες ων ιππικος αμα και

harpist ; then you would Know when horses were managed Well or ill . But if I were to ask you ,

κιθαριστικος , αν εγνως ιππους ιππαζομενους ευ και κακως : αλλ’ ει εγω ηρομην σ’ ,

“Then by which Art , O Ion , do you know whether horses are Well managed ? Because you are a

540e δη ποτερα τεχνη , ω Ιων , γιγνωσκεις τους ιππους ευ ιππαζομενους ; η ει

horseman or because you are a harpist” ? What would you answer me ?

ιππευς η η καθαριστης ; τι αν απεκρινω μοι ;

Ion: I would indeed reply, because I am a horseman .

εγωγ’ αν , Ηι ιππευς .

Soc: Is it not so then , that if you were to Determine those who performed Well on the lyre , then

Ουκουν και ει διεγιγνωσκες τους ευ κιθαριζοντες ,

you would agree , that you Determined this , by being a harpist , but not by being a horseman ?

αν ωμολογεις , διαγιγνωσκειν ταυτη , ει η κιθαριστης , αλλ’ ουχ η ιππευς .

Ion: Yes . (Ναι.)

Soc: Then since you recognize/know military matters , do you recognize/know them by being a general ,

δε Επειδη γιγνωσκεις τα στρατιωτικα , ποτερον ει γιγνωσκεις η στρατηγικος

or by being a Good rhapsode ?

η η αγαθος ραψωδος ;

Ion: In no way does it appear to me at least , that they differ .

Ουδεν δοκει εμοιγε διαφερειν .

Soc: How can that be ? Do you mean that they differ in no way ? Do you mean that the Art

541 Πως ; λεγεις διαφερειν ουδεν ; λεγεις την τεχνην

of the rhapsode and the general are one , or two ?

ραψωδικην και στρατηγικην ειναι μιαν η δυο ;

Ion: As far as I am concerned they appear to be one .

εμοιγε δοκει Μια .

Soc: Accordingly then , whosoever is a Good rhapsode , this very person will also happen to be

αρα Οστις εστιν αγαθος ραψωδος , ουτος και τυγχανει ων

a Good general ;

αγαθος στρατηγος ;

Ion: Precisely , O Socrates .

Μαλιστα , ω Σωκρατες .

Soc: Is it also not so then , that whosoever happens to be a Good general , is also a Good rhapsode .

και Ουκουν οστις τυγχανει ων αγαθος στρατηγος , εστιν και αγαθος ραψωδος .

Ion: This does not appear to be so in turn to me .

τουτο Ουκ δοκει αυ μοι .

Soc: But the former certainly appears to be so to you ; that whosoever is indeed a Good rhapsode ,

“λλ’ εκεινο μην δοκει σοι οστις γε αγαθος ραψωδος ,

is also a Good general ?

541b ειναι και αγαθος στρατηγος ;

Ion: Very much so . (Πανυ γε .)

Soc: Is it not so then , that you are the best rhapsode of all the Hellenes ?

Ουκουν συ ει αριστος ραψωδος των Ελληνων ;

Ion: By far indeed , O Socrates .

Πολυ γε , ω Σωκρατες .

Soc: And are you also the best general of all the Hellenes , O Ion ?

H ει και αριστος στρατηγος των Ελληνων , ω Ιων ;

Ion: Know it well , O Socrates , and this is indeed so from the lessons of Homer .

ισθι Ευ , ω Σωκρατες , και ταυτα γε εκ των μαθων Ομηρου .

Soc: Why ever then , in the Name of The Gods , O Ion , do you who are both , the best general and

Τι δη ποτ’ουν προς των θεων , ω Ιων , και ων αμφοτερα αριστος στρατηγος και

the best rhapsode of all the Hellenes , on the one hand , go about as a rhapsode to the Hellenes , when

ραψωδος των Ελληνων , μεν περιιων ραψωδεις τοις Ελλησι ,

you could go about as a general , but on the other hand , do not ? Or on the one hand , does it appear

541c στρατηγεις , δ’ ου ; η μεν δοκει

to you that the Hellenes are in great need of a rhapsode crowned with his golden crown , whereas on

σοι τοις Ελλησι ειναι πολλη χρεια ραψωδου εστεφανωμενου χρυσω στεφανω , δε

the other hand , they have no need of a general ?

ουδεμια στρατηγου ;

Ion: For on the one hand , O Socrates , my city is under the rule and generalship of your own city

γαρ μεν , ω Σωκρατες , ημετερα Η πολις υπο αρχεται και στρατηγειται υμων

and have no need of a general . Thus your city and that of Sparta will not elect me as your general ,

και ουδεν δειται στρατηγου , δε υμετερα η και η Λακεδαιμονιων αν ουκ ελοιτο με στρατηγον :

for you think that you are sufficient unto yourselves .

γαρ οιεσθε ειναι ικανοι αυτοι .

Soc: O Good Ion , do you not know of Apollodoros the Cyzikenon ?

Ω βελτιστε Ιων , ου γιγνωσκεις “πολλοδωρον τον Κυζικηνον

Ion: Who is this person ?

Ποιον τουτον ;

Soc: Someone who has often been chosen their own general by the Athenians even though he was

541d Ον πολλακις ηρηνται εαυτων στρατηγον “θηναιοι οντα

a foreigner . And Phanosthenes the Andrion , and Heraclides the Clazomenion , whom although they

ξενον : και Φανοσθενη τον “νδριον και Ηρακλειδην τον Κλαζομενιον , ους ηδε

were foreigners , the city appointed them to lead their armies and to other offices , by having shown

οντας ξενους , η πολις εις αγει στρατηγιας και εις τας αλλας αρχας , ενδειξαμενους

that they were worthy of their esteem . But then they will not choose Ion the Ephesian as their general

οτι εισι αξιοι λογου : δ’ αρα ουχ αιρησεται Ιωνα τον Εφεσιον στρατηγον

and to honor him , if he were to prove himself worthy of their esteem ? Were not, on the one hand, the και τιμησει , εαν ειναι δοκη αξιος λογου ; εστε ουκ μεν οι

Ephesians originally Athenians ? And Ephesus is the lesser of no city ? Whereas if , on the one hand ,

Εφεσιοι το αρχαιον “θηναιοι , και η Εφεσος ελαττων ουδεμιας πολεως ; “λλα γαρ ει μεν

what you say is True , that you are able to praise Homer by Art and Knowledge , then on the other

541e οστις συ λεγεις αληθη , ως ει οιος επαινειν Ομηρου τε τεχνη και επιστημη ,

hand , you are dealing unjustly with me , by saying that you Know and would exhibit many beautiful υποσχομενος αδικεις εμοι , ως φασκων επιστασαι και επιδειξειν πολα και καλα

things about Homer , and so you are deceiving me and you are so far from exhibiting , the subjects about

περι Ομηρου , εξαπατας με και δεις πολλου επιδειξαι , αττα περι

which you are Skilled , that you do not even care to explain what the nature of your Skill is , after my

ων ει δεινος , ουδε γε εθελεις ειπειν ος ταυτα εστι , εμου

oft-repeated requests . But just as Proteus has numberless forms ; so do you turn in all kinds of ways ,

παλαι λιπαρουντος , αλλ’ ωσπερ ο Πρωτευς γιγνη ατενηως , στρεφομενος παντοδαπος

above and below , until at last you escaped from me in the form of a general , in order that you may not

ανω και κατω , εως τελευτων διαφυγων με ανεφανης στρατηγος , ινα μη

exhibit/demonstrate/show that you are Skilled in The Wisdom of Homer . Therefore ,on the one hand ,

542 επιδειξης ως ει δεινος την σοφιαν περι Ομηρου . ουν μεν

if you are an Artist , just as I was just now saying , and you promised to make an exhibit about Homer

ει ων τεχνικος , οπερ δη νυν ελεγον , υποσχομενος επιδειξεν περι Ομηρου

only to deceive me , then you are unjust . Whereas on the other hand , just as I said about you , if

εξαπατας με , ει αδικος : δε , ωσπερ εγω ειπον περι σου , ει

you are not an Artist , but speak all these beautiful words about Homer by Divine Dispensation , without

ει μη τεχνικος , αλλα λεγεις πολλα και καλα περι Ομηρου θεια μοιρα μηδεν

Knowing , but by being possessed by the poet , then you are in no way unjust . Therefore , choose ,

ειδως , περι κατεχομενος εξ του ποιητου , ουδεν αδικεις . ουν ελου

which one do you wish to be considered by us , an unjust or Divine person ?

ποτερα βουλει ειναι νομιζεσθαι υπο ημων , αδκος η θειος ανηρ .

Ion: There is a vast difference , O Socrates , for it is by far nobler to be considered divine .

Πολυ διαφερει , ω Σωκρατες , γαρ πολυ καλλιον νομιζεσθαι το θειον .

Soc: Now then , as far as we are concerned , this Nobler designation ; belongs to you , O Ion ,

542b τοινυν παρ’ ημιν Τουτο το καλλιον υπαρχει σοι , ω Ιων ,

to be a Divine and not an Artistic praiser of Homer .

ειναι θειον και μη τεχνικον επαινετην περι Ομηρου .

14 Dec 2013

................
................

In order to avoid copyright disputes, this page is only a partial summary.

Google Online Preview   Download